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Wastewater Becomes Issue in Debate on Gas Drilling

nytimes.com -- ..Niagara Falls water utility seized on a new moneymaking idea last year: treat toxic waste from natural-gas drilling at its sewage-treatment plant once hydrofracking gets under way in New York State.

Accepting the waste would both offset the drop in revenue and help keep water rates down for customers in the economically strapped region..

But the thought of having fracking fluids trucked into the city, treated and discharged into the Niagara River frightened local residents, many of whom still recall the Love Canal environmental crisis of the 1970s. In a unanimous vote, the Niagara Falls City Council blocked the plan ..banning the treatment, transport, storage and disposal of drilling fluids within city limits.

“We’re not going to deal with this again — a chemical disaster,” said

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Submitted May 06, 2012 By: teafortwo

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drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,939 Points:751,985 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 5:56:24 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "With fracking causing earthquakes? Consider how many fracking wells that might not have previously caused any issues; but may become cracked and start leaking as the result of the earthquakes?" ============================= Interesting hypothesis but without a source of credible evidence of fracing having caused earthquakes, it's just that, hypothesis. I wonder what magnitude quake it would take make a well "crack"? And millions of wells whether fracced or conventional have been drilled, never heard of one of those being "cracked" by an earthquake. Perhaps someone knows of a credible source? And is there even conclusive and irrefutable evidence of fracing induced earthquakes, perhaps a credible source of that could be provided.
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:22,106 Points:1,384,910 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 5:42:05 PM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse CdnLynx; excellent post and excellent points. When considering "accidental" contamination of our water supply? With fracking causing earthquakes? Consider how many fracking wells that might not have previously caused any issues; but may become cracked and start leaking as the result of the earthquakes? Contaminated water is contaminated water whether it is intentional or not :0\|
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,021 Points:523,150 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 12:51:33 AM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse I will also post to your whitebrd, in case this forum stops http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2008/5059/section4.html USGS - Estimated Depth to Ground Water and Configuration of the Water Table The above usgs site talks about the southern slope of larch mountain (probably the deepest U.S groundwater) that is just over 1200 ft depth to groundwater; it does seem that most groundwater is above that level during my quick perusal of that site; maybe this is where you got your info. Water is critical to humanity far more important then oil and other fuels. All substances percolate down to groundwater and it does not take much to contaminate the worlds largest supply of fresh/potable water. I realize that oil industry does not deliberately drill into aquifers; however urge continued diligent caution. Hydrology as any science is never exact; mistakes are always possible; now with that, a small vein may go unnoticed and then then an oil well may accidentally intercede into an aquifer. Another good site (includes info on fracturing) http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,939 Points:751,985 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 11:28:57 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse CdnLynx, "there is the distinct possibility that some of that soup will undoubtedly mix/contaminate the vast ground waters contained deep underground." ======================================== It would be an extremly rare case that ground water would be any deeper than 1000'. And even if that rarity were present, wells are not drilled into that water.
CdnLynx Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,021 Points:523,150 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 12:22:35 AM Ignore CdnLynx Report Abuse My concern with the fracking solution; is the amount recovered and its subsequent treatment/cleaning within municipal water treatment facilities. Not all that fracking solution that has been forced into the depths will ever be recovered; there is the distinct possibility that some of that soup will undoubtedly mix/contaminate the vast ground waters contained deep underground. For instance Hexamine is both water soluble and a carcinogenic and is not suitable to the human body, as with many others listed. The proper pursuit of energy is very noble; however not at the expense of water. We may eventually find alternatives to our energy woes; water on the other hand is critical to humanity and its survival! Fracking is a process that should be scrutinized, until such time, it can be proved without a doubt that it is harmless to the environment and the planets inhabitants.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,939 Points:751,985 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 7, 2012 7:02:55 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Especially for you teafertwo and PDQ: I just went to the Fracfocus site and the first page of the search for wells had this listed as the latest well recorded,by the way there's no diesel used in this one and of the hundreds I've looked at I have not seen diesel used. Could it be that Oblame-a is just spouting off to look good to his enviro buddies? Just asking? Here's the well info: Total Water Volume (gal)*: 2,474,850 True Vertical Depth (TVD): 7,340 Production Type: GAS Long/Lat Projection: NAD27 Latitude: 32.690344 Longitude: -97.316614 Well Name and Number: WATSON SOUTH 2H Operator Name: CHESAPEAKE API Number: 4243935796 County: TARRANT State: TEXAS Hydraulic Fracturing Fluid Composition: Fresh Water 89.79% Ottawa Sand 9.10% Crystalline Silica (Quartz Sand, Silicon) 0.50811% Phenol/Formaldehyde Resin 0.02619% Hexamethylenetetramine (Hexamine) 0.00524% Water 0.39966% Hydrogen Chloride 0.07053% Methanol (Methyl Alcohol) 0.00065% Aliphatic acid 0.00049% Aliphatic alcohols, ethoxylated 0.00049% Sodium Erythorbate 0.00042% Carbohydrate polymer 0.01097% Petroleum Distillate Hydrotreated Light 0.02099% Aliphatic alcohol polyglycol ether 0.00105% Ammonium Persulfate 0.00053% Chlorine Dioxide 0.00056% Sodium Polycarboxylate TRADE SECRET 0.01922% And surprise, surprise and looky there! The trade secret aka "secret sauce" by the fear mongerers is listed right there! See that PDQ and teafertwo!
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,939 Points:751,985 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 7, 2012 9:28:39 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Oh dear, it sure got quiet here.
DandyDapple All-Star Author North Dakota Posts:715 Points:310,820 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:22:31 PM Ignore DandyDapple Report Abuse OMG 2012 ...
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,939 Points:751,985 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:56:52 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse PDQ is spreading more bull feces and lies! LOL! Fracfocus lists the chemicals used right here Poor PDQ, for one who claims to rely on science, PDQ's research skills are sorely lacking! LMAO.
PDQBlues Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,069 Points:1,447,350 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:26:44 PM Ignore PDQBlues Report Abuse "But the thought of having fracking fluids trucked into the city, treated and discharged into the Niagara River frightened local residents, many of whom still recall the Love Canal environmental crisis of the 1970s." And they have every reason to be concerned about these fracking fluids. Even the site that drpepperTX claims that lists in full disclosure all the chemicals used in fracking only lists WATER. The other listing are just generalities, such as "surfactants." Truly a piece of deception. Check for yourself: http://fracfocus.org/water-protection/drilling-usage http://fracfocus.org/sites/default/files/chemical-in-fracing-chart.jpg
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,596 Points:1,204,605 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 7:57:49 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Well thought out points PlaytimeCLE! To quote TomT2Lee..."Human nature is to do nothing until it is to late."
my2002m Champion Author Tulsa Posts:6,069 Points:1,669,325 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 7:26:54 PM Ignore my2002m Report Abuse What is the issue if its treated? If they aren't treating it before its released then I see that there is a problem.
TomT2Lee Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:5,357 Points:1,597,230 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 6:56:01 PM Ignore TomT2Lee Report Abuse Human nature is to do nothing until it is to late.
leraar2 Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,759 Points:786,705 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 5:46:11 PM Ignore leraar2 Report Abuse pollution is forever.
ktbaeohana Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:2,306 Points:422,000 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 4:35:01 PM Ignore ktbaeohana Report Abuse WATCH AND SEE, NOT GOOD.
sivart Champion Author Arkansas Posts:18,219 Points:3,069,985 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 3:52:06 PM Ignore sivart Report Abuse Huh....
fuel2use Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,483 Points:732,350 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 2:30:02 PM Ignore fuel2use Report Abuse Good points.
MidNJ Champion Author New Jersey Posts:7,554 Points:1,172,595 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 12:31:24 PM Ignore MidNJ Report Abuse Many believe that heaven is up in the sky and hell down below. My question is why is it that so many continue to look to the depths of the earth for our future energy and not the skys and sun?
fedupMN Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,949 Points:572,480 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 11:45:26 AM Ignore fedupMN Report Abuse "drill baby drill" is the war cry of the TEApublicans and they could care less if it hurts the environment. Rather then "Drill baby Drill" it is "Greed baby Greed"
playtimeCLE Champion Author Cleveland Posts:8,555 Points:1,543,400 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 11:23:08 AM Ignore playtimeCLE Report Abuse There are a lot of places in this country where no one would care if there treatment plants took on some frack water. But there are also some places in this country that you just can't take a chance. An international treasure like Niagara Falls is one of them. How many of you have even been there to see it? I have been there in every season and in fact was there last month. Doing a quick Google map search for Niagara water treatment plants, I found nearly all of them to be upstream from the falls. I'm sure none of us really want one of the best waterfalls on earth to be accidently damaged by frack water. This just doesn't make much sense. I'm sure we will hear people say that the treatment water wont make a difference. Have you ever had a bad day at work? would you want a water treatment plant upstream of Niagara Falls to have a bad day with frack water? This is just not a good idea.
sljbc475 Champion Author Tucson Posts:4,215 Points:871,400 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 11:01:59 AM Ignore sljbc475 Report Abuse I do not believe that the companies will have a tanker nearby to transport the waste water to a waste-water treatment facility.
TXRanger09 Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,506 Points:891,175 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:53:53 AM Ignore TXRanger09 Report Abuse Researchers also found that less than 20% of newspaper articles on hydraulic fracturing mention scientific research related to the issue. Similarly, only 25% of broadcast news stories examined made reference to scientific studies, and about 33% of online news coverage mentioned scientific research on the issue.---- Could the public just hear/read more science?
flahusky All-Star Author Florida Posts:733 Points:154,590 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:47:15 AM Ignore flahusky Report Abuse Make the Board of Directors drink a few glasses to prove how safe it is.
JR57CA All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:788 Points:326,125 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:46:56 AM Ignore JR57CA Report Abuse This is trouble waiting to happen!!! And that's not the only consequence - the "fracking" process undermines the integrity of the foundation of a very large area, causing unstable ground.
K9LO Champion Author North Dakota Posts:2,680 Points:543,005 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:46:37 AM Ignore K9LO Report Abuse Spotted owl syndrone
Travel1st Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:2,920 Points:470,660 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:45:51 AM Ignore Travel1st Report Abuse Agree.
Tucker1961 Champion Author Seattle Posts:2,157 Points:363,170 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:45:40 AM Ignore Tucker1961 Report Abuse good
BigBearHug Champion Author Amarillo Posts:2,219 Points:487,430 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:45:31 AM Ignore BigBearHug Report Abuse distil it
APlus Champion Author San Antonio Posts:3,918 Points:991,445 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:44:37 AM Ignore APlus Report Abuse Protect the environment
TXRanger09 Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,506 Points:891,175 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:44:22 AM Ignore TXRanger09 Report Abuse Wish some genius out there could tell us all what the hell is in the fracking fluid. Read some articles regarding the oil companies secret fracking mixture as a trade secret. No, sorry, if water treatment plants have to clean/treat the waste water from their business, they need to know what their up against. And personally, I want to know whats being dumped in my water up stream.
buckets42 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:1,690 Points:329,550 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:16:26 AM Ignore buckets42 Report Abuse Frack baby frack.
fowlcan Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:2,110 Points:683,615 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 10:15:39 AM Ignore fowlcan Report Abuse Drilling = Waste Water It needs to be monitored to a high degree by a continuous, strict,daily,independent,qualified group of scientifically trained people.
Track79 All-Star Author Maine Posts:802 Points:600,540 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:42:23 AM Ignore Track79 Report Abuse ugh
bvrbill Champion Author Eugene Posts:3,217 Points:517,775 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:41:57 AM Ignore bvrbill Report Abuse Buck_on_Bass is right. Maybe this city council should outlaw the use of cars, as the exhaust is a pollutant. Of course, then who would clean up the horse dropping? This is just another case of political posturing.
Jeffro61 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,272 Points:2,285,570 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:37:34 AM Ignore Jeffro61 Report Abuse Ok
gassy4u Champion Author Mobile Posts:3,763 Points:1,326,210 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:37:21 AM Ignore gassy4u Report Abuse They'll figure it out.
leemun Champion Author Utah Posts:5,528 Points:1,039,150 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:34:09 AM Ignore leemun Report Abuse Hysteria strikes again.
dlemma Champion Author Wyoming Posts:4,101 Points:1,554,045 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:32:31 AM Ignore dlemma Report Abuse TOTALLY DIFFERENT from the Love Canal situation. Gasbuddies need to study up on what fracking actually is, and what real studies say. Or, better still, talk to a petroleum engineer who can give you the facts. University of Texas Study on Fracturing In the EPA studies, consistently the scientists do NOT follow traditional scientific steps to study it - other scientists have found this to be true over and over.
Old Timer Champion Author Akron Posts:3,737 Points:1,262,040 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:32:06 AM Ignore Old Timer Report Abuse Need to protect our water supply!
Somis1 Champion Author Ventura Posts:13,677 Points:2,613,800 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:30:21 AM Ignore Somis1 Report Abuse The waste water needs to be handled, that's for sure.
Buck_on_Bass Champion Author Tennessee Posts:7,574 Points:1,455,310 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:29:34 AM Ignore Buck_on_Bass Report Abuse If cities and towns are not interested in participating in the proper disposal of drilling waste, perhaps they should reconsider the use of the the products coming from those wells. [Edited by: Buck_on_Bass at 5/6/2012 9:30:22 AM EST]
vcsuksu21 Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:2,471 Points:706,965 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:28:49 AM Ignore vcsuksu21 Report Abuse ok
gasman50 Champion Author Portland Posts:8,839 Points:2,408,510 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:28:23 AM Ignore gasman50 Report Abuse Too bad, sounds like a good plan
LuthierKS Champion Author Wichita Posts:3,741 Points:728,955 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:27:48 AM Ignore LuthierKS Report Abuse The same people who voted "no" are going to be the first to complain that the waste water isn't being treated and reused. Businesses cannot win in this Marxist environment.
OOXXFF Champion Author Greensboro Posts:3,058 Points:1,078,430 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:27:42 AM Ignore OOXXFF Report Abuse We should approach this subject with caution.
Spirits All-Star Author Florida Posts:911 Points:372,800 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:26:32 AM Ignore Spirits Report Abuse The more I read about fracking the more it sounds like another environmental disaster maybe worse that the gulf oil spill.
mikesr11 Champion Author New York City Posts:3,496 Points:679,240 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:24:58 AM Ignore mikesr11 Report Abuse TRUCK THE FRACKING FLUIDS TO WASHINGTON, DC AND DROP THEM AT 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE - THERE IS PLENTY OF WASTE THERE!
cookined Champion Author Maine Posts:3,980 Points:2,229,895 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:24:46 AM Ignore cookined Report Abuse Move on you MORONS
thuathienhue Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,448 Points:633,340 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:23:42 AM Ignore thuathienhue Report Abuse Okay
fatfed Champion Author San Antonio Posts:2,860 Points:475,440 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: May 6, 2012 9:23:39 AM Ignore fatfed Report Abuse As many people they are in the U S somebody is going to complain