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TransCanada submits pipeline application to U.S. for second time

GasBuddy Blog -- TransCanada today announced that for the second time, it has submitted a Presidential Permit application to the U.S. Department of State for the proposed Keystone XL pipeline that would carry Canadian crude oil to the Gulf region.

The multi-billion dollar Keystone XL pipeline project will reduce the United States' dependence on foreign oil and support job growth by putting thousands of Americans to work," said Russ Girling, TransCanada's president and chief executive officer, even as many media outlets and critics have called TransCanada's job numbers "a joke".

While Girling did mention the likely reduced dependence on foreign oil and the job growth, he failed to mention that if the Keystone XL pipeline is built, it will...

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Submitted May 04, 2012 By: PD

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kawayomaana Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:1,688 Points:432,165 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: May 29, 2012 9:47:23 AM Ignore kawayomaana Report Abuse Ok
albert2008 Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:7,352 Points:1,481,010 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: May 29, 2012 8:29:26 AM Ignore albert2008 Report Abuse get it done already
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 29, 2012 2:37:37 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Of course you do.
Reishman Veteran Author Illinois Posts:384 Points:515,865 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: May 28, 2012 10:32:38 AM Ignore Reishman Report Abuse I blame Obama.
albert2008 Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:7,352 Points:1,481,010 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: May 28, 2012 8:39:01 AM Ignore albert2008 Report Abuse good stuff
Donatelo Champion Author Dayton Posts:1,121 Points:292,685 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 27, 2012 3:00:45 PM Ignore Donatelo Report Abuse it will go through, just taking safety issues one step at a time.
D61 Rookie Author British Columbia Posts:90 Points:82,575 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: May 27, 2012 10:58:38 AM Ignore D61 Report Abuse Mmm
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 15, 2012 12:32:11 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Agreed blueBMW480, recent news is showing that the Seaway reversal scheduled to start delivery May 17 to increase in supplies by 150,00 bbls/day is driving the premiums of US Gulf oils down off of WTI. As I predicted, the many different grades that nobody really pays much attention to, will decrease with increased supplies and this is just a drop in the bucket when Keystone XL northern leg will bring hundreds of thousands more bbls of oil in. [Edited by: drpepperTX at 5/15/2012 12:35:48 PM EST]
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 15, 2012 10:00:54 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse blueBMW480 - Why do you want to increase gas prices and hold back any economic recovery?
blueBMW480 Champion Author Nashville Posts:818,391 Points:840,740 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: May 15, 2012 9:08:08 AM Ignore blueBMW480 Report Abuse Build it
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,623 Points:1,609,520 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: May 12, 2012 12:01:48 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse the next domestic war will be over clean drinking water (and that's not coming from a bottle).
Vette1967 Champion Author Albany Posts:5,962 Points:1,275,025 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 10:58:51 PM Ignore Vette1967 Report Abuse Here we go again.
txrojo2005 All-Star Author Austin Posts:766 Points:479,630 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 7:01:34 PM Ignore txrojo2005 Report Abuse This will get delayed until after the elections.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:42:46 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "It was pure politics. And I have no idea what he believes. But I doubt he cares." ===================== Pure politics yes, but I think he cares. Have a great weekend buddy!
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:22:48 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse drpepperTX - "I have another question. Why did Obama swoop in to approve the Southern leg, of which his 'approval' was never necessary? And do you think he believes that will bring the price of oil down or up?" It was pure politics. And I have no idea what he believes. But I doubt he cares.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:16:22 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse No, I think I have been trying to keep up with someone else's 'winging it'. I have another question. Why did Obama swoop in to approve the Southern leg, of which his 'approval' was never necessary? And do you think he believes that will bring the price of oil down or up?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 6:06:39 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse So, apparently you paid no attention to the fact that I was originally responding to gasokie's statements about the glut at Cushing, in the context of the northern leg of Keystone XL, which is, of course, the only point where the Presidential Permit application is in context, and you've just been winging it ever since.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 3:32:54 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Oh, ok, I see. So when you said, "So, basically, the "Presidential Permit application" has got nothing to do with any glut, except to make it worse.", then said "Because the glut at Cushing is also limiting the price of WTI.", and then said "Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf..." I was confused because on the one hand you said the glut would be worse and then the glut would be relieved with the "significant quantities reach the Gulf" words. I guess I just did not understand that the worse glut was not really going to get worse but going to be relieved but only after that increase in supply and flow of oil would cause a rise in oil prices.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 2:41:00 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse drpepperTX - "Really? How so?" Because the glut at Cushing is also limiting the price of WTI.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 1:58:26 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "Which means the price will go up. Likely, the additional pipelines from Sushing to the Gulf will also increase the cost of WTI." Really? How so?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 11, 2012 1:46:58 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse drpepperTX - "Since the Gulf Coast refineries are already capable and have even upgraded MORE refinery capacity for this oil, they have been refining the same quality oils from South America all along, there will be no additional difficulty or cost to refine. And that is a domestic market condition." I'm not talking about the cost to upgrade to handle heavy crude. I'm talking about the actual cost to refine it, as opposed to the simpler process of refining light crude. That's why light crude trades for a higher price than heavy crude. So Canadian heavy crude will still trade at a discount from light crude, but the basis price will be set by world market conditions rather than domestic market conditions. Which means the price will go up. Likely, the additional pipelines from Sushing to the Gulf will also increase the cost of WTI.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 6:28:16 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Since the Gulf Coast refineries are already capable and have even upgraded MORE refinery capacity for this oil, they have been refining the same quality oils from South America all along, there will be no additional difficulty or cost to refine. And that is a domestic market condition. Additionally you basically said the same thing I did when I stated "It therefore could very well bring the price of Canadian crude up from the current 20% or so discount off of WTI prices but still likely discounted from the WTI market price."
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 5:51:14 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse No, it's a reference to the chemical properties of the crude and the additional difficulty, and cost, of refining it. [Edited by: rjhenn at 5/10/2012 5:51:33 PM EST]
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 5:41:13 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "...so the most likely effect is that Canadian crude will trade at a much reduced discount that accounts for the increased difficulty of refining it." ================================ Is not your reference to the refining a domestic market condition?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 5:29:31 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Nope, it's the same theory. Since it's heavy crude, it will still sell at a discount, a much smaller discount, but the price will be determined by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 1:27:59 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse rjhenn, "...so the most likely effect is that Canadian crude will trade at a much reduced discount that accounts for the increased difficulty of refining it." Am I misreading or does that theory run counter to your earlier theory? rjhenn, "Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf, the price of Canadian crude will be set by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions."
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 12:02:05 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse drpepperTX - There's plenty of world demand, and considerable elasticity in supply, so the most likely effect is that Canadian crude will trade at a much reduced discount that accounts for the increased difficulty of refining it.
Radicalrose Sophomore Author Modesto Posts:125 Points:363,400 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 10:28:21 AM Ignore Radicalrose Report Abuse what are we waiting for?
albert2008 Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:7,352 Points:1,481,010 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 8:15:10 AM Ignore albert2008 Report Abuse hurry up already
Catwatch27 Rookie Author South Carolina Posts:62 Points:33,235 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: May 10, 2012 12:03:11 AM Ignore Catwatch27 Report Abuse I hope the pipeline is approved.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 8:51:32 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf, the price of Canadian crude will be set by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions." -------------------- That's one theory, another is that increasing the North American supply, which is discounted from WTI pricing, and decreasing the demand for overseas oil (based on Brent pricing) will affect (increased supply of any kind) the price of both downward. It therefore could very well bring the price of Canadian crude up from the current 20% or so discount off of WTI prices but still likely discounted from the WTI market price. But we've had this discussion before, nobody knows until and when it happens.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 7:03:30 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse drpepperTX - "As to the Gulf refineries, the Canadian crude will be cheaper to import and replace the more expensive tars sands oils from S America." Except that, once significant quantities reach the Gulf, the price of Canadian crude will be set by world market conditions, not domestic market conditions.
Bridge2012 All-Star Author Kansas Posts:913 Points:271,290 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 6:22:26 PM Ignore Bridge2012 Report Abuse I myself would like for the pipeline to go in.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 6:20:35 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "Neither of which have anything to do with the Presidential Permit application for the northern leg of Keystone XL." ====================== Which brings us full circle to your original questions: "So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing? Just how does that work? Like I said that glut will be relieved by the KeystoneXL south and the Seaway lines. As to the Gulf refineries, the Canadian crude will be cheaper to import and replace the more expensive tars sands oils from S America. And I concur, additional pipelines should be built to the East and West coasts as well!
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 6:00:23 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse drpepperTX - "How will it make it worse? With the Seaway reversal (400,000 barrels per day) carrying oil this additional oil from Cushing to the Gulf Coast. And with the Southern leg of the KeystoneXL carrying even more oil from the Cushing terminal to the Gulf Coast." Neither of which have anything to do with the Presidential Permit application for the northern leg of Keystone XL. And we don't need that crude at the Gulf. The refineries there are already producing more than they can sell domestically. We need that crude on the East Coast, possibly even the West Coast.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 4:21:54 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "So, basically, the "Presidential Permit application" has got nothing to do with any glut, except to make it worse." ================= How will it make it worse? With the Seaway reversal (400,000 barrels per day) carrying oil this additional oil from Cushing to the Gulf Coast. And with the Southern leg of the KeystoneXL carrying even more oil from the Cushing terminal to the Gulf Coast.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 2:36:28 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse ManOfLeisureII - "I'm in favor of building this pipeline." Why?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 2:34:40 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse drpepperTX - "LOL, yes gasokie mentioned the glut but rjhenn then asked "So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing?....Just how does that work?". I simply explained how that works, since you seemed not to know." So, basically, the "Presidential Permit application" has got nothing to do with any glut, except to make it worse. Thanks for confirming that neither you nor gasokie are on topic. [Edited by: rjhenn at 5/9/2012 2:35:46 PM EST]
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,623 Points:1,609,520 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 12:04:00 PM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse ManofL: you're also a long ways from it and not affected by any spills.
ManOfLeisureII Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:1,874 Points:454,150 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 10:28:29 AM Ignore ManOfLeisureII Report Abuse I'm in favor of building this pipeline.
Donatelo Champion Author Dayton Posts:1,121 Points:292,685 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 9, 2012 9:07:41 AM Ignore Donatelo Report Abuse k
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 6:49:57 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse LOL, yes gasokie mentioned the glut but rjhenn then asked "So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing?....Just how does that work?". I simply explained how that works, since you seemed not to know.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 6:35:18 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse No, gasokie brought it up as a justification for the northern leg of Keystone XL.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 5:58:38 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse rjhenn, "So why bring it up when talking about the northern leg of Keystone XL" ======================= If you're addressing that question to me, it's because you brought up the question. :=)
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 5:51:01 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse So why bring it up when talking about the northern leg of Keystone XL?
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,945 Points:752,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 2:24:38 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse rjhenn, perhaps you are forgetting that the southern leg of the Keystone XL is going ahead? Or how about the reversal of the Seaway pipeline? That's the relief of the bottleneck. Hope that helps! :=)
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,438 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 1:57:50 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse gasokie - "Oil is selling about 75% of value right now because sellers have to pay that for storage. There is no place to put it. Just like here in Oklahoma where the discount is 15% because of the full storage in Cushing." So another pipeline from Canada TO Cushing will relieve the full storage in Cushing? Just how does that work?
JCUBE Champion Author Michigan Posts:8,569 Points:1,915,220 Joined:Aug 2003	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:56:44 AM Ignore JCUBE Report Abuse get Obozo and the rest of the morons in Washington and the big oil interests away from this area
albert2008 Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:7,352 Points:1,481,010 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 8:24:26 AM Ignore albert2008 Report Abuse get to work
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,623 Points:1,609,520 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: May 8, 2012 5:44:20 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse gasokie: and the pipeline will just sell to the highest bidder on the international market. It's not helping the US gas prices, other than keeping Exxon on the top spot, outdoing even Walmart for the highest earning companies. Think about it, 3 out of 5 of the highest profit raking companies are Pig Oil companies.